Politicians
You know what’s really frustrating the hell out of me about the whole health care debate is that there seems to be such a large chunk of the politicans who seem unwilling to even sit down and try to figure out something that works. I mean, seriously now. I think even they, when push came to shove (if they weren’t grandstanding for an audience), would agree with the end goals: supporting those who need it, and making it cheaper for everyone. What they disagree with is what they think will get us there. And that’s fine. Discussion is very necessary and very healthy. This is a huge issue that needs to have the actual issues figured out.
So WHY THE FUCK are they still screaming about government run “death-panels” and “mandated abortions”? Did they even READ the bill? Do they know the difference between socialized health care and what’s in the plan? (Clue: it’s PRETTY DAMN BIG) I am sick of the scare tactics. And I am sick that people are actually falling for that crap. Obviously this is why the special interest groups and politicians are still doing it – some Americans are stupid enough that it actually works. It pays to be loud.
I want to see our politicians sitting down and saying, “Okay, here’s my concerns about this. Here’s what I think would work better.” The great thing about this country is our ability to elect our politicians, so that they will better serve the people in determining legislation and speaking for us. They have a very important job. So why are so many of them acting like fucking children?? Is it apparently a prerequisite to be elected that you have to be a douchebag? Obviously I am starting to understand why so many Americans are incredibly jaded about the government and politicians in general. THESE are the cream of the crop, elected to stand for us and make the most important decisions for us? Are you serious? I think my DOG could do a better job. And she pees in the corner when scared.
I loved the President’s speech. I did not like watching political commentary and the aftermath, though, because it just makes me so frustrated and angry – of course they focus on the fringe groups and extremists and it just upsets me. I intentionally do not watch, even though I would love to keep up with politics. If anyone has a less emotionally charged way of staying on top of current events, please let me know.
I don’t know if any other country is so fundamentally torn in half. I don’t know if it will ever come together as a whole, where most of its population is happy. It seems when you look back at the history, whichever party holds the Presidency, half of the country is pissed off and feels unrepresented. I admit, I fall into one of those halves. I still think sometimes about moving back to Canada in the [far] future. As much as I do love about this country, I am not really sure I really belong.
But then, maybe I do. Maybe that’s why it hurts so much.
You know they don’t read the bills. I mean, the current health care reform is over 1000 pages long.
I am not a Congressman and I manage to read the parts I have issues with. :P But you’re right, they probably don’t. How depressing.
FWIW, I was born and raised here, and feel the same way. No, I’m not happy with it 100%, but I can’t understand in the least bit why they can’t just work it out.
But then, that’s why I decided not to go into politics in the end, I guess.
Your 2nd paragraph – YES. Right now, they care more about power than ANYTHING else. And yes, I know it seems biased here, but PARTICULARLY Republicans. I’m not saying I hate republicans, or that I disagree with every one. Hell, I’m not even registered Democrat. But it’s gotten worse. With the Karl Rove era, a new norm was issued in of power at all costs. What the Bush campaign did to McCain way back when in the primaries proved that. There’s NO WAY they should have been able to make McCain look the way they did with the candidate they had. But they did. ANd he tried to fight it the noble way. He lost. Then he said, “SCREW IT” and tried to get the presidency with a few of the same shady tactics (even though he still didn’t stoop to Bush/Rove/Cheney level) And there’s NO WAY they should have been able to make Kerry’s war record look as bad as they did again with their candidates war record history. But they did. It’s a massive PR machine. And it’s very effective. And they don’t want to give up that precious fringe “base” they have b/c they are their most rabid supporters. The rest of America can be swayed one way or another (except for the fringe left which they will NOT move to). So they MUST stay rabidly right… at least mostly. That’s one of the reasons I always loved Sen. Arlen Specter (from my home state of PA) He’s got enough power that he can say it like it is and always does. He’s always voted what he feels is best. And even HE moved from Republican after more years than I remember to Democrat recently b/c of frustration.
And finally, we are in a VERY huge era of misinformation due to crazy journalism that must ALSO have power and money at all costs. Certain aspects of capitalism DO suck. NOTHING is good when it’s not in moderation. It’s so frustrating that people scream “Socialism” or “Capitalism” at the drop of a hat when BOTH in MODERATION can be GOOD. What do they think Social Security is? A regulated school system?? Immunizations??
I think we are unprecedentedly (a word?) uninformed right now. We are so overloaded with all kinds of stimulus and most of it not enlightening. It’s harder than ever for the average Joe to wade through the crap. And many of us are average Joes or even less than average intelligence and time wise. So people find it easier and more comforting to run with the simplistic scare messages on TV.
Can you tell this all pisses me off royally too? And it IS b/c I care so damn much.
By the way. I think our President is a FABULOUS orator. It’s a nice change.
I completely agree with everything you said. If I had my way, we would fire everyone in Congress and let them re-run for their spot. Apathy, laziness, greed and lack of common sense is all I see these days and it makes me sick. Grow up you bunch of babies and do the job you were elected to do!!
I’m not sure I belong either….
Hear, hear! Sometimes I wish we had the Parliamentarian system, so everyone would be forced to debate (e.g., speak out loud, in the form of an argument, not something your aid had prepped that you then went and read like a 2nd grade book report) so we could actually listen and hear these numbnuts and what passes for intelligence. I grow weary of people saying we live in a democracy, isn’t that lovely, so let’s voice our concerns, and then all they do is YELL. That’s not an argument people. That’s what my 5 year old does when she’s really overtired and I’m not caving on dessert.
I had many ideas of ways to respond to this post, but the bottom line is: just because half of Americans disagree with Obama’s health care plan does not make them “stupid”, “extremist”, or “fringe”. Skepticism of government, self reliance, and personal responsibility built this country into the amazing place that it is.
Jessica, I was specifically talking about the small group of stupid, extremist and fringe groups that are disrespectful, rude, and unwilling to sit down and have discussions. As I said very early on in the post, “What they disagree with is what they think will get us there. And that’s fine. Discussion is very necessary and very healthy.” Of course many people disagree with the plan, that’s to be expected. But there is a way to go about healthy, productive discussion. Making up outright lies and scare tactics is not it.
My paragraph about the country having two opposing sides was a separate thought/concern. Even with the small (though apparently growing) group of extremist idiots removed from the picture, I really don’t know how all of America can really come together on this or pretty much any other issue.
You think health insurance is expensive now, wait til it’s free. That could not be more true.
Why not go back to Canada and see how long it takes you to get infertility appointments and how high you rank on their to-do list?
First of all, you bitch about republicans using scare tactics. Why not include the way Obama claims there are 47 million uninsured people living in this country? True? Maybe. BUT THEY AREN’T EVEN WILLING TO COME HERE LEGALLY. People are lazy and if they do not have health care, that is their own damn fault- if you’re so poor you can’t afford health insurance/care, you’re already getting it for free (medicaid/medicare/government services).
Do you REALLY want the government running healthcare? I mean, come on, they couldn’t even run a used car business for two weeks.
I don’t try to navigate the liberal mentality. Really, I don’t care that much. But socialized medicine is really crossing the line. Even for liberals.
Brianne:
First, infertility is not covered under Canada’s free healthcare, people go to private clinics and pay out of pocket just like they do in most States in the U.S. And if it WAS covered by the insurance plan I would gladly wait to get it for free, as would most people I know, rather than spending $15k out of pocket for one cycle. (I personally get most of my IVF cycles paid for by insurance, because I am in MA where the government stepped in to create an insurance mandate, but I fully realize I am VERY lucky to have this and most people I know are not so lucky.)
Second, I totally agree with you about illegal aliens. They shouldn’t be included in the numbers, and they should not receive any benefits this government offers their legal residents.
Third, I do not agree with the mentality that if you don’t have X then you don’t deserve it. A lot of people don’t have health insurance because they simply can’t afford it. If you lose your job you lose your health insurance. Even if you get hired at a new job you have to wait 3 or even 6 months to get on their employer-sponsored plan. The only option is medicaid/medicare, which IS socialized medicine.
And fourth, for all the talk of the scary socialized medicine the plan Obama has set out does not include socialized medicine like medicaid/medicare, and never did. Socialized medicine is where all tax-payers are required to pay in, and all taxpayers get the benefit. It is not optional, and it is the same for everyone across the board for all members of the society. The “public option” in the current bill that everyone talks about, it would be set up as a non-profit health insurance company, funded entirely by the premiums that people who choose to subscribe to it pay into it, not by tax money. The main difference between it and private health companies of course is that it would not be making a profit, all money would go back out to pay claims. So those who did not want to be in it, wouldn’t pay for it. Those who did, would. It would also be optional, not required for anyone. It would be one of the many options in the health exchange, alongside the private insurance options. Personally I think it’s a very nice solution.
Brianne,
The WH came out yesterday or the day before and acknowledged their number was inflated due to the illegals in the country. They also have admitted it was a mistake and the number they are using and will use is 30 million.
And climb back on your horse about people who don’t have health insurance are lazy and poor. You know what? I pay close to $900 a MONTH for my insurance. My insurance that covers me and only me. Out of my pocket. Simply because I live in a state which a small handful of companies hold a monopoly. Also? Because I have a standing prescription for an asthma inhaler. Do you honestly think it is okay to charge someone, because of a pre-existing “condition”, what is the equivalent of a mortgage payment in a lot of parts of the country?
And the inhaler? Not because I actually have an asthma diagnosis, but because I live in Colorado and with the altitude if I’m having seasonal allergies I wheeze a bit.
The current plan before Congress is NOT socialized medicine. It does NOT cover illegals. And it is NOT government funded.
Ps. My $900 a month? Doesn’t cover infertility. Nor does it cover basic pre-natal care or delivery if I manage to get knocked up. It basically covers if I have something catastrophic happen to me. And my husband works for a small business and thus doesn’t offer a family benefit so that ain’t an option.
“Socialized medicine is where all tax-payers are required to pay in, and all taxpayers get the benefit. It is not optional, and it is the same for everyone across the board for all members of the society. The “public option” in the current bill that everyone talks about, it would be set up as a non-profit health insurance company, funded entirely by the premiums that people who choose to subscribe to it pay into it, not by tax money”
Wrong. Socialized medicine and the Obama-care option are nearly identical. You lose your choices, no matter how pretty it is presented with words. We pay about $200/month to insure our family and the rest of the premium ($15000/year) is paid by my husband’s employer. No copays, no deductibles, no lifetime maximums, no limits. So why the hell would I want a public option?
To get back to my “lazy and poor” soapbox, if you’re poor, the government will freaking pay for you to go to college and therefore create a better life for yourself. I’m sorry Walmart Workers of America are pissed off that they are failures in life and thus have to work at Walmart in the first place. Then they go and bitch about healthcare. Chances are, they’re getting government assistance to begin with!
I live in Ohio which is traditionally conservative, and there are lots of small businesses here too. However, it is a choice to work for them. The larger scale business, the better the benefits are. I don’t get a dime from the government in any assistance and thus am paying as much for my Bachelor’s degree as I did for my brand new house. And the fact that I pay for day care out of pocket when I do not even work? That seems real fair. Yet, I’m not whining about healthcare or anything else I want from the government. It’s called planning and unfortunately some lack the ability to plan and hence end up as walmart workers.
I have no clue which comments do or do not have kids, but that may be the key difference in this debate- when you have kids the last thing you’re going to do when they’re sick is call and ask permission to take them to the doctor or ER and that is EXACTLY what the new HR bill will enforce.
Regardless, opinions are just that. I’m against public option, yet I will step down from my soapbox.
I will just say that you are seriously misinformed about just about all of that and have a very sad view of our society and the other people who live in it. It is really very sad that you seem to lack any kind of empathy. YOU might not want or need another option – but you are not the only person in this country.
Just to clarify, from Medicine.Net:
Socialized medicine: A system of health care in which all health personnel and health facilities, including doctors and hospitals, work for the government and draw salaries from the government. Doctors in the US Veterans Administration and the Armed Services are paid this way. And the Veterans and US military hospitals are also supported this way. Examples also exist in Great Britain and Spain.
None of the plans that have been proposed for the U.S. fall under the definition of socialized medicine.
Wow Brianne. Maybe you should take a deep breath and do some research on your own – as opposed to listening to what the conservative radio/television hosts spoon feed you – before you start preaching. You could start at http://www.factcheck.org
If you’ve never heard of them, and it sounds like you haven’t, they are an unbiased, politically unaffiliated think tank. They actually read the proposed bill and then filter out the lies and myths presented by BOTH parties.
Or you can stew in your anger and ignorance.
The sad thing, that people REALLY don’t realize, is that it’s not the “lazy” that don’t have ins.
Between my husband and I we’re well into the 6 figures, we pay near nothing for health ins, IVF was totally covered for us the last cycle (we paid cash for 5 other cycles), we drive expensive cars, live well. Lazy, we’re not. And yet, there have been times in our young lives, that health ins has escaped us. Or caused us stress. Between college and getting a job for example. One hospitalization, and our lives would have been on hold for years. Because it’s not the 1 million dollar bill that’s scary. It’s the 50k bill that because you’re NOT a lazy person, and you’ll be able to pay, that’s terrifying. Because you’ll spend years paying it and your life gets to be on hold. Because a germ got a hold of you and that was that. Not because you’re lazy, not because you’re irresponsible.
The lazy are already covered. Walk into an ER, have no money, have no assets, and I already pay for the care of the lazy. In increased premiums, in increased taxes. Charity care is subsidized by those of us that HAVE ins.
The lazy have not to worry.
You know who has to worry?
The parents that work 3 jobs, all of which don’t offer ins, but help them to just make their bills and feed their kids.
The 60 year old man who worked hard for years, but just found himself laid off in a bad economy and doesn’t yet qualify for aid, because he does in fact own his house after working for years to pay it off.
The man who makes 150k a year, HAS health ins, but has a daughter with cancer…who’s care has now met the maximum but she’s still sick. And now he’s sold his house and spends every last dime on her care, can’t get ins for a pre-existing condition and now has to file for bankruptcy, despite his being quite educated and having a great great job.
These are the people left behind by the “lazy” argument.
My parents literally pulled themselves up out of nothing. I believe strongly in personal responsibility. I think one of the reasons for the collapse of our economy in recent years is in great part because TOO many people want to live WAY beyond their means. I think it’s time for a “new normal”. Can’t afford the huge house? Get a smaller one. Can’t afford the new Benz? Get a Civic. Live within the means you CAN and make an effort to be self-sustaining. It’s plenty possible.
But the most self sufficient man or woman, the most well educated with the great job? They can’t control cancer. And they can’t control germs. When your neighbor is foreclosed on and files for bankruptcy because of his medical bills, you ARE affected.
And just to get to the “Do you want gov’t deciding your health care?” argument. Of course not! The thing is…A guy who wants his 123 million dollar bonus (the CEO of whatever you have) is already decided. And I can’t vote his ass out. Gov’t is hard to just define as bad or good. This gov’t, this way of life, gave me chances I could never have had other places. But yes, they mismanage thing. Thing is, I would bet ever one of my many pennies that gov’t would be more likely to cover things that ins companies now turn down. The voice of the people DOES matter when it comes to these things. And whatever our govt’s faults, letting it’s people lie en mass isn’t one of them. Gov’t wouldnt be cutting people off, telling you your 7 year old daughter better make preparations to die because 1 mil is enough to spend trying to save her. I’m a skeptic about many things, but THIS is not one of them.
There are a variety of problems in Obama’s plan. But it’s far from socialized medicine. I come from a family of doctors and that’s hardly what they’re worried about. They’re worried about malpractice, they’re worried about tort reform, they’re worried Obama’s not addressing these cost cutting issues. They’re not worried about gov’t decided their healthcare. They’re sick of ins companies telling them how to care for patients, what care they can provide. They want to care for their patients again without having to worry that they’ll have to shut down their practice because they just can’t afford to go on practicing. The number of OBs shutting down their practices is astounding!!
I don’t think half the country is wrong. I DO think SO SO many people are uninformed about the facts. Or haven’t worked through the logic. I hate the idea of illegals getting coverage. My parents came here legally, worked their asses off. I hate the idea of lazy shits staying home and getting things from me (though, lets address that you can’t abuse a system like this. You either ARE or AREN’T sick).
I think there are people who willfully ignore that it’s not the lazy or even just the poor that this would fix things for. I think it’s really really important for people to realize that one day? It could be you. And no amount of hard work, education or planning can help you when they send you that huge bill.
I meant die en mass, by the way. I just can’t type, lol.
Very well said Charmi and Nat. Lovely to see people actually educated, informed and sensitive to others. I mean that very sincerely.
And I agree that a public option is an OPTION. The very word itself indicates CHOICE. It’s strange to me that people keep saying this stuff is “mandated” when it’s not that way at all.
As for people who are less fortunate than others? Wow. I knew people existed who had no understanding or empathy of the situation, but I guess I didn’t really believe it could be that bad. I come from a very hard working lower class family as well who have worked their ASSES off for everything they’ve gotten. The poor are often some of the very hardest working people in the country. Want to know why we had problems? My Mom’s family (generations back) was a well off farming family in an area that relied on farming and coal. When both went down, they lost a lot of their livelihood. That area of the country is now one of the poorest, and it’s very difficult to pull out of that situation without help. Then she got pg by accident, worked hard and my Dad joined the military. They did ok… until he left her and refused to pay his child support and moved around so he didn’t have to b/c each state’s rules are different. It was hard for her, but with my other family’s help, she worked her ass off and helped me be better.
After she remarried, (when I was young) her husband got sick and nearly died. He was out of work for over a year with medical bills mounting as his job certainly didn’t keep him on too long after he got sick, and Mom’s didn’t have good insurance. (try finding a job with great insurance you can afford in that area.. good luck). Again.. she worked her ass off and paid off all the medical bills AND they took care of my stepsister and me. .. all the time urging us to work hard so we could get to college and do better like they didn’t get to do.
And yes, my sister and I were covered under medicaid while stepfather was in the hospital. But do you know what we had to make for a family of 4 to be covered (JUST the children) at that time?? We were making $13000/yr for FOUR Of us. When Mom started making $16000 for FOUR of us, we lost the insurance. And Mom was so desperately embarrassed that we had that and food stamps for a while, but she had no choice. She had to feed us. My sister and I would do whatever odd jobs we could with family and neighbors to make money here and there so we wouldn’t have to use the coupons we got for school lunch vouchers. We were ELEVEN and SIX.
There’s a portrait of a family that struggles.
I made it to college by getting an academic scholarship from working my ass off yet again. AND NO the govt DOES NOT GIVE YOU FREE EDUCATION. IT’S ALMOST ALL LOANS YOU HAVE TO PAY BACK. I have paid back EVERYTHING myself.. and am still paying. I am Thirty-one. I’m almost there and look forward to it. I got a decent job and am doing better than my Mom did which is what she wanted. My sister has a house and two beautiful boys and is doing well too.
Done.