Discussions of the politically incorrect kind
There are people out there – not many, I don’t think, and certainly not the majority of religious folk, but I’m talking the end of the spectrum religious people – who believe that using birth control is wrong. And I don’t mean wrong in a I don’t want to use it or an it doesn’t work for my family kind of way. I mean they think it is morally wrong to use any form of birth control. It’s not really hard to understand how they theologicially got to that perspective, either: these are the people who believe that life begins at conception and, furthermore, that God wanted this child to exist. So it’s really not hard to take another step back and for them to say if you use birth control you are getting in the way of what God wants. To them, using birth control is against the word of God. (And I am not making this up – I just had a discussion with someone who believes this.)
The problem I have with this whole line of thinking is how very egotistical it is. I have yet to find two people who believe the exact same things, even two people who go to the very same church. One church-goer fully believes in no birth control, the one sitting beside them says, weeelllll, maybe that’s not exactly what God intended. So who is right? Well, obviously, they both believe they are right and the other person is misinterpreting something. The other person… but not themselves.
I have no issues with people who live their lives according to whatever rules they feel are appropriate, if they are good people. I try very hard to judge people based on what they do, not what they believe. If someone is respectful, is kind, is compassionate, then I don’t really care if you worship Shiva or the Earth Mother or God.
What really, really bothers me is when people start telling me what I need to do in order to be a good person – what I need to believe. When politicians start making legislation based on a religious ideal – say, gay marriage is wrong because god said so – then I start to have some very serious problems with it.
I’ll tell you, readers, that I am scared by much of the politics of this country. I abhor the lies and half-truths that both sides are doing. But most of all I am nervous that people who drive their politics from their religion will get in office. McCain doesn’t really strike me as one of those. Palin, however, does.
I wonder, does she think birth control is wrong? Or does she just fear that if we give our daughters information that they will run away and have more sex? Or maybe she believes that sex should only take place within a marriage, so birth control isn’t necessary. This is very troubling, because these ideals stem from religion. And you might be saying, but Natalie, most peoples’ beliefs and ideals stem from religion. And I agree – it usually does. But trying to pass laws like abstinence-only sex education affects my kids… my heathen, Atheist kids. And my friend’s Pagan kids. And so on. Why should MY children be limited on what they can learn in public school because of a religious belief that my family does not share?? This makes no sense to me. There are private schools, religious schools, for people to enroll their children in if they feel that offended by public school. If they do not wish their child to be taught certain things, then I fully accept their right to bow out of that class, that day, those discussions. I will feel like their child is missing out, but that is their choice for their family. I do not feel like I should force it on someone else… yet they want to remove the choice entirely from me. The public school should be respectful to all the religions in this country, not follow the restrictions of any one.
Same with same-sex marriage. My position has always been very simple: separate the church-wedding and the legal marriage. So if a religion disagrees with a marriage – for whatever reason – then I feel they have the right to not agree to do the marriage in their church, by their ministers. The church does not sanction the marriage. Fine. That’s their perogative. But keep that separate from what is allowed under the law. Some of my friends in Europe had two weddings: a wedding in a courthouse presided over by an official, which made the union legal under the eyes of the law; and then a wedding in a church, presided over by a minister, that made the union legal under the eyes of their god and their church. And to me that is the perfect explanation. They are two separate events that, in America, has been mashed together for far too long. The churches complain that allowing same-sex unions is interfering with what their image of a holy marriage is. I just think we are blurring a line that shoud be made far more distinct.
Just keep religion out of my laws. That’s all I ask. ‘Cause, hey, I happen to have a different one than some of you. And, you know, I think we should all be included. I just think that’s fair. Maybe I’m crazy.
I couldn’t agree more. I have often said that I care much more about people’s actions than their beliefs. I’ve seen atheists do great good, and believers do great harm. What truly matters is how our lives play into the equation of suffering in this world. Are we a force for more suffering or less?
Ultimately, I think a deep and bottomless fear posesses those who cannot tolerate opposing beliefs. Every brush with an opposing viewpoint pushes such individuals to acknowledge their fear, their uncertainty. Individuals are driven to legislate their morality, their “one right path” upon us all to avoid their fears. Such individuals can only ever be truly secure if everyone everywhere shares their exact beliefs. Of course, as you so clearly illustrated, this is impossible.
Unfortunately, one of our problems I think, in this political season, is that we are so tolerant of other beliefs. Unlike some others, we aren’t keen to press our values into the headspace of others. We believe people will have good judgment, seek out unbiased sources of information, and make good decisions. Meanwhile, loud talking heads are hypnotizing their followers with nary an opposing voice to be heard. Maybe, just maybe, I’ll break out of my shell for the Women’s Week for Obama volunteer activities. We’ll see.
Oops, sorry to eat up your comment space! In closing, you most certainly are one of the more sane voices I’ve “heard” lately on these subjects.
Can I just say this, as a practicing Christian?
Christianity is a big tent. There are lion tamers and tight rope walkers, and yep, there are the clowns too.
some of us try to ask ourselves – lion tamer or clown. . .
LOL Mrs.Spit, I certainly don’t think all of you are crazy. Hell, my best friend in the entire world is a Christian. It’s just the crazies that drive me nuts. ;)
Amen. (says a fellow athiest)
Rock on sister!!
Amen to that. (Pun intended). We do live, after all, in a country that was FOUNDED on the belief that church and state should be separate. Too many religious zealots are driving this country’s politics too far to the extreme. And Palin is the perfect figurehead for those zealots of which I speak. She is downright frightening to me. This election scares me worse than GWB taking office… I didn’t think that was possible.
I believe everyone is entitled to their own belief system, however:
“Life begins at conception” is an argument made toward the abortion issue. That simply means, should you get pregnant on purpose, on accident, etc, that you believe that it is still a human life to be valued.
The argument about sex education and abstinence only teaching goes much further than the surface which was scratched. Would you really want your child to be given condoms and extreme far left sex education?
I happen to love Sarah Palin and her beliefs BECAUSE it comes based upon religion.
I totally agree.
And I am glad I’m not the only one who finds the gay-marriage thing to be of a religious matter. I hate to break it to the law makers, but banning gay-marriage is a violation of religious freedom. Not all religions believe that gay-marriage should be banned. So by banning their right to wed-lock, that’s a violation of the constitution (I would think.)
Ahh,and birth control and sex-ed… I could go on. All I’m going to say is I totally agree with you.
It has more to do with money then religion. A lot of people don’t want their tax dollars paying for sex education from Kindergarten to 8th grade, especially if they don’t believe that sex education should be taught by anyone but a parent or guardian. The same goes for same sex marriage. If your same sex spouse can be on your insurance policy, my insurance policy price is going to go up to allow for that. If I don’t want to pay for that, should I have to?
These are not just a religious issues.
There is nothing in the constitution about marriage.
I actually would be thrilled if they separated church & state further in Canada (and I know Chris would be if they did in the US)–and I’m a born, raised, & eventually reaffirmed after some critical thinking on my part Christian.
I actually think that allowing Intelligent Design & Abstinence-Only “Sex Ed” in schools is a horrible step back in the education system. Schools are just there to teach the facts and NOT to preach. The only time the morality/ philosophical side of either of the above subjects should be taught in school is in a philosophy class.
Kudos to you, Natalie!
Everyone is definitely entitled to their religion / belief, and even the right to express that belief. What pushes my buttons is when people attempt to push those beliefs on me through unconstitutional laws, that tell me I don’t have a right to make decisions regarding my own body, regarding the body of the daughters I may have some day. Sex education is -imperative- in this day and age, and to be frank, too many parents aren’t taking the initiative to talk to their kids about sex.
Hand out condoms! Hand out brochures! Shove pictures of STD-infected body parts in their faces, and re-iterate that THIS is what can happen if you don’t protect yourself. Pussy-footing around sex education and preaching abstinence only helps NO ONE. It doesn’t give our kids the tools they need to arm themselves when faced with the decision to have sex responsibly. I will gladly pay more taxes, knowing that those dollars are going towards educating our youth, and I will gladly pay more taxes knowing that somewhere a gay couple are finally able to claim one another on their health insurance after twenty years into their relationship.
Gender does not threaten the validity of marriage. Sex-education does not threaten the virginity of teenagers. Bigotry does.
Great post, Natalie!
i agree. also, it makes me think that since they are so adamant that birth control is a sin, does that mean that the infertiles are not blessed enough or deserving enough to naturally create their own children? terrible. i agree with you.
Karen B. – That’s one of the worst arguments against same-sex marriage that I’ve heard yet. It’s okay to discriminate because money’s involved and it will cost more? Wow.
And health insurance is a whole ‘nother topic for another day.
Yes, yes and yes. And our country is getting scarier and scarier every day with these crazies.
Do what you want, but *please* just stay away from me and mine.
I am terrified about the outcome of this next election.
Rachel, I agree. I’m getting more and more scared the more I see. And, like Shilpa said, I didn’t think that was possible after last time.
I just stumbled across this post. AMEN SISTER! Again, from one atheist to another. This country WAS NOT founded on Christian beliefs, and I do not want someone elses dogma making decisions for EVERYONE. People love Palin, if they believe what she does. Those same people would not be so happy about a fundamental Muslim or Jewish person coming into power. It’s selfishness at it’s finest, in my opinion. It’s “I’m all for a theocracy, as long as it’s MY religion”.
Blech. BTW what is “far left” sex education? Giving people information, teaching them how to prevent STDs and pervent getting pregant? How INSANE!
I agree with you 100%. I am a Christian but do not feel like I should push my beliefs on someone else. Palin scares me so much.
Agreed.
If you want to live in a theocracy that’s a whole other story, Brianne.
But my understanding is that in the US, as in other Western democracies, the separation of church and state is a major part of the definition of ‘democracy’.
We’re all watching across the world to see what your next election brings.
i totally agree with you, religion should stay out of our laws. and i’ll tell you something, most religions for example Christianity (mine) encourage free will. I beleive God gives free will. With that in mind, i don’t get how the religious as*holes in our governtment system have the nerve to impose God’s *laws* on us when even God does not???
So yeah, I hear you.
When we found out my (24 year old) sister in law was pregnant with her “oops” baby, because she thought since she wasn’t having regular periods she could not get pregnant… I looked at my husband and told him that THIS was a prime example of why we needed better sex education in schools. Regardless of my beliefs about abstinance being a better choice (and I will tell my kids that), I think it’s foolish to stick your head in the sand and think you don’t need to tell kids about other options.
I was just stating a fact, not an opinion. I don’t necessarily think that way about these situations. In fact I’m a Christian and we are taught to have mercy on others not shove their shortcomings in their faces whether those others are Christians, homosexuals or faking injury to avoid working and collecting welfare.
“If your same sex spouse can be on your insurance policy, my insurance policy price is going to go up to allow for that. If I don’t want to pay for that, should I have to?”
if i dont want to pay for my wife beating alcoholic neighbor to be on his wife’s insurance policy that happens to be with the same company i have insurance with, do i have to?
hell yes. thats how the world works. you dont get to pick and choose, seriously.
I totally agree!!
Karen B- public education is public for a reason. Sex Ed should be a part of it because it educates young people and makes them safer. You can always opt your child out of that or go to private school. We pay for public schools because we believe everyone should be educated, and yes, that does included sex ed. Do you even know what is discussed in those classes? People are more likely to have babies as a teen and get diseases when they are NOT educated about it.
Erin, I like your analogy about the health insurance. Well put.